Conversation 1

Mr. Works—Good morning, Neighbor Wright. How are you and all yours this morning?

Mr. Wright—We are all well, thank you; come in. And who is this gentleman with you?

Mr. Works—This is my good friend and neighbor, Mr. Truman, with whom I wish you to get acquainted, Mr. Wright.

Mr. Wright—I have heard Mr. Truman spoken of frequently by different ones, but I have never had the pleasure of meeting him before.

I am glad to make your acquaintance.

Mr. Truman—For a long time, I have been wanting to meet you and to have a talk with you.

Mr. Works—I have been talking with Mr. Truman upon the subject in which he, and I am sure all of us, are interested; but I cannot get him to understand my position. It is upon the subject of salvation that we have been talking. I have heard that you were a very ardent Christian and that you found great enjoyment in talking of the things of God, so we have come to hear what you have to say about salvation. All Christians believe in the salvation of mankind, but I find they differ greatly as to the time and manner of being saved.

Mr. Wright—The Bible is very plain upon this subject; and I am sure there would not be such difference if all studied the Word with unbiased minds. I am heartily glad that you have come to talk upon the subject. It is a theme very dear to me. Is our friend Mr. Truman a Christian?

Mr. Truman—I have never made a profession of Christianity; however, I have for years had a desire to be right with God, and as time goes on, that desire grows stronger. Sometimes I think, “O God, I must be saved”; but I have seen so much disagreement between religious professors that I am sometimes made to wonder what is the right way. To my mind, it is impossible for all to be right when there is so much difference. If there is a right way—and I must, I will, believe there is—I want to find it. It is terrible to be lost; it must be glorious to be saved. But I am told by some that we are saved by works, by others that we are saved by baptism, and by others that we cannot be saved in this life. So I do not know how to get saved or whether I can get saved at all before I die. If I cannot get saved until after death, then I pray that that messenger will soon come for me. Oh, tell me, Mr. Wright, can I not get saved now? And if so, tell me how to be saved.

Mr. Wright—Have no fears, Mr. Truman; God will always be found of them that seek Him with all their hearts. He will never let a hungry soul go unfed. You can be saved; you can be saved now, and you can and will know when you get saved.

Mr. Works—Allow me to differ with you here, Brother Wright. I believe we are saved by good works and that we do not know just when we are saved; but as we continue to serve the Lord, He will accept us.

Mr. Truman—This is what Mr. Works has been talking to me, and I must admit that he has given me some very pointed texts of Scripture; yet my heart is not satisfied. It has always seemed to me that if heaven is the happy place the Bible says it is, if it will be forever, and if hell is the awful place without end that we are told it is, we should know when we are saved and ready for heaven. Can anything else satisfy my soul?

Mr. Wright—There is a way that is right, an only way; we can find that way, thank the Lord, and know when we have found it.

Mr. Works—To think that we are right and that all others who do not see as we see are wrong is, I think, entirely too narrow. If we believe a way to be right, that way to us is right. Now I believe in salvation by good works.

Mr. Wright—It is not, Friend Works, that I believe others to be wrong because they do not see as I see, but all are wrong who do not understand or see the Bible in its true meaning. Will you please explain what you mean by salvation by works?

Mr. Works—Since the Bible is so explicit on this subject, I am a little surprised that I should need to explain, however, I will. God will accept and own us as His if we live right. If I pay my debts as I can, give just weight and measure, visit the sick, give to the poor, and take in the stranger, I tell you I will risk being saved in eternity. Why men! Doesn’t Jesus say that if we do these things, He will say to us: “Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world”* (Matthew 25:34)?

Mr. Wright—But, Mr. Works, let us reason a moment. Some words have more than one meaning. There is a difference (allow the homely illustration) between the tailor’s goose and the farmer’s domestic fowl called a goose. Another illustration: Two men who had never before seen an orange were each given one. One of them began to bite into his as one would eat an apple, while the other, before eating his, carefully removed the rind. The first said, “The orange is a bitter fruit”; the latter said, “It is most deliciously sweet.” They both were right. Now let us get at the true meaning, or meanings, of salvation. I admit that there is a salvation by works, but we must be careful to give to “salvation by works” its true meaning. To say that salvation by works makes us a child of God—that it effects the writing of our name in the book of life, and fits us for heaven—is using the term out of its true meaning, which is a dangerous thing to do. The salvation that the Bible speaks mostly about is not a salvation by works. Let us take one text for example. Here is my Bible, Mr. Works; read Ephesians 2:4-5 for us.

Mr. Works—Let me see, Ephesians is in the New Testament, is it not?

Mr. Wright—Yes, sir; it comes just after Galatians. There, just a few leaves further over.

Mr. Works—You say second chapter… “But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved).”

Mr. Wright—This fifth verse says that we were dead in sins. You will admit that we all were once sinners.

Mr. Works—Yes, sir.

Mr. Wright—And as sinners, we were in a state of spiritual death.

Mr. Works—Yes, sir.

Mr. Wright—Now, what is meant by “quickened” in verse 5 and also in verse 1?

Mr. Works—It means to make alive.

Mr. Wright—Then you will admit that before we are Christians we are in a state of death, and when we get saved, or become Christians, we are made alive?

Mr. Works—Well, I cannot deny that.

Mr. Wright—How can a good work that we can do bring a dead soul into life?

Mr. Works—I am not supposed to answer all questions, but I know that salvation is by works.

Mr. Wright—You will agree with me that all men naturally are sinners.

Mr. Works—Certainly.

Mr. Wright—Well, now read 1 Timothy 1:15.

Mr. Works—Let me see… 1 Timothy 1:15 you say. Since my eyes have been failing, I have not done much reading and I have forgotten where some of these books are. Now I have it; verse 15: “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.”

Mr. Wright—Christ came to save sinners. Now read Matthew 1:21.

Mr. Works—“And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.”

Mr. Wright—It is Jesus that saves; He saved from sin. Now please read Luke 7:48.

Mr. Works—I will let Mr. Truman do the reading; his eyes are better than mine.

Mr. Wright—But I want you to look on as Mr. Truman reads. I think it will be the more convincing to you.

Mr. Works—I think it is a waste of time to be trying to convince me, for since I have belonged to church as long as I have and tried to live right, I know I am a Christian.

Mr. Truman—Pardon me, Friend Works, but did you not tell me the other day that we could not know just when we became Christians?

Mr. Works—Yes, sir.

Mr. Truman—Well now, what puzzles me is that if we cannot know when we become Christians, how can we know that we have become Christians at all? But I will read the text Mr. Wright called for—“And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.”

Mr. Wright—You will agree with me again, Brother Works, that when this woman’s sins were forgiven, she was saved, or in other words, became a Christian.

Mr. Works—Well, yes, I am compelled to do that.

Mr. Wright—What good works was it that she did that saved her?

Mr. Works—I do not know; it may have been the wiping of his feet with her hair; at any rate it was not by faith as you claim that it was.

Mr. Wright—Please read verse 50, Mr. Works.

Mr. Works—“And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.”* (Luke 7:50)

Mr. Wright—Here we see it was not the wiping of her Savior’s feet with her hair, but her faith in Him that saved her and gave her peace. Can you tell me what good work or number of good works that you did that made you a Christian?

Mr. Works—I decided to live a better life; I left off my worst sins; I went to doing good; I took upon me the duties and profession of a Christian.

Mr. Wright—Do you believe that that saved you from all sin?

Mr. Works—As to being saved from all sin, we all have our own private views.

Mr. Wright—Let us be serious now. You believe heaven to be a pure place?

Mr. Works—Certainly I do.

Mr. Wright—Do you believe that heaven’s purity would be marred in the least if the Lord were to take you to heaven just as you now are?

Mr. Works—I think, Brother Wright, that to spare ourselves any uneasiness, we shall not entertain such serious thoughts.

Mr. Wright—It is not, my dear friend, that I want to cause you any uneasiness, but heaven is real, and it is a holy and happy place; hell is also real, and a place of the greatest wretchedness. Since we are hastening on to the one or the other of these places, it is time that we be serious. You say that the salvation you have is just what you have grown into by good works. Now, what has such a salvation done for you? What kind of a person has it made you to be? Are you ready to walk the golden streets of the New Jerusalem with those who have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb? Could you join in with that white-robed throng in singing the song of Moses and the Lamb? Could you sit beneath the tree of life with our Savior in perfect calmness? Could you sit upon the evergreen banks of the river of life and look into the rippling water with the consciousness that your soul is as pure as that crystal stream? If everyone in heaven were as you now are, what kind of a place do you think heaven would be?

Mr. Works—I say I do not think such pointed questions should be asked. I shall not trouble myself with them. None of us can know just how it is with us, but we know that if we do the best we can, our kind, merciful Savior will not turn us away. But I have stayed as long as I can for this time. When I come again, I shall come with some scriptures that will convince you that my position is right. I will give you this one to think upon—“He that continueth in good works the same shall be saved.”

Mr. Wright—I am very glad you gentlemen came over today. I have enjoyed the talk ever so much.

Mr. Truman—It has certainly encouraged my heart.

Mr. Wright—While it is our duty to point out to our kind friends the true Bible way, we do so in love and with the kindest of feeling. I shall be pleased to have you bring your scriptures, Brother Works, and we shall consider them in the spirit of friendship. While you are collecting your list of texts, please get the chapter and verse of the text you just quoted.

Mr. Truman—I saw you with a paper in your hand, Mr. Wright, when we came this morning. Was it a religious paper?

Mr. Wright—Yes, sir; it is the Gospel Trumpet, published at Anderson, Indiana. There are articles in it upon all religious subjects from time to time. Its teachings are clear and plain. It is just such a paper as you should read.

Mr. Truman—What is the subscription price?

Mr. Wright—One dollar a year.

Mr. Truman—You may send it to me.

Mr. Wright—Thank you. Now, come again soon, both of you. Goodbye.

Mr. Works—I will be over as soon as I can get my scriptures collected. Goodbye.