The Word of Truth

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Life of the Body

How is godliness demonstrated?

“But the people were not examples of the power that God endues.”1

How is this power that God gives to be “demonstrated” (for lack of a better term, please) by a congregation? (Some dance, others sway forwards and backwards, some fall on the ground and foam at the mouth, others clap hands, etc, etc. I do not think this is what you mean.) What should a spiritual man be expecting to see and experience in a real godly congregation?

Reply:

No, physical action is not what I mean. The entire point of the gospel is to live a holy life. A man or woman who is living a holy life is not distinguished by their enthusiasm or zeal, their words, or their actions in public services. It is the life that stands behind their testimony. This is what the scriptures teach.

“That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.”* (Luke 1:74-75)

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”* (Titus 2:11-14)

When a man with a regenerated heart is around you (in public services or not), he will show that he is changed from his old life by how he talks and what he talks about (or doesn’t talk about). He will show it by what he does and what he doesn’t do. His purpose in living will be different than it was before he was converted. It will be holy. And there will be in him a carefulness to please God and not do anything that would displease Him in any way. Furthermore, he will treat others differently than he used to do before he was saved, and that difference can be accurately described as holy and a continual attempt to have a conscience void of offense toward God or man. Furthermore, he will grow in understanding of what it means to do right and please God, and that growth will include living up to all additional understanding by the help of God. We call that “walking in the light.”

When people who are living like that come to public services, what they are in heart will manifest itself in how they sing, pray, and speak. There is not a particular technique that demonstrates it, but any investigation (such as, “What did you mean when you said [prayed, sang] such-and-such”) will began to uncover the fact that you are in the presence of a man or woman who has been changed by the power of God from an unholy person to a holy person. It is not just any change. It is a change from sin to holiness, and it is wrought by the power of God.

An indoctrinated people who have a head knowledge of what it means to be a changed people will use the same phrases and quote the same scriptures as the truly converted, but something will be missing. As you get to know them, it will become more and more obvious that the head is informed, but the heart believes and practices differently. In the final analysis, a person who is expertly impersonating a child of God just doesn’t have what the true child of God has—a real love for truth and right, and victory over sin.

I will quote a little from Bro. C. E. Orr:

If all who profess to be Christians would live soberly, righteously, and godly, they would win the world for Christ in a short time. A heathen said to a missionary, “We are finding you out. You are not as good as your Book. We like your Book, but you do not live like your Book reads. If you would live like your Book reads, you would conquer India for Jesus in five years.” Amid the cares of everyday life, do you live like the Book reads? The Book tells us that we should live godly in this world, or in this life. To live godly is to live like God.

[Charles E. Orr; Heavenly Life for Earthly Living, “Heavenly Living”]

Keeping true spiritual fellowship.

I am really not sure that a congregation that is wholly spiritually dead ever comes back to spiritual life again. Do they really revive back to life? Shouldn’t a true saint come out of it (2 Corinthians 6:14-18; Revelation 18:4) and follow only the Lord with those only in Him?

Reply:

Congregations (or movements, for that matter) don’t make collective decisions to follow God or not to follow Him. Their direction is determined by the many individual decisions, made by each person there. Because of this, it is unlikely that a dead congregation can reverse the decisions that got them in that condition collectively. They can all come to life again if they each make the decision to repent and seek God, but this just usually doesn’t happen. We are plainly informed in Ezekiel 37 that God has the power to make a whole bunch of dry, exceedingly dry, bones come to life again. He has the power to resurrect an entire congregation of dead, dry professors at once, too, but the likelihood of them all calling on Him simultaneously is slim.

Now to your second question. Yes, it is plain that God’s people are to flee from things that are not of Him. But, what if I don’t know where to go? Ask God to show you what to do. But “have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness.”* (Ephesians 5:11) Sigh and cry for the abominations about you and withdraw in spirit from them (Ezekiel 9:4). Ask God to lead you to His Zion. Ask Him to help you take the steps to get clear and keep clear. Do whatever He says to do. If you must stay there for lack of alternative at the current time, then be separate. Stay clear of an affinity with what is wrong. Abhor the wrong. Cleave to that which is good. Pray for deliverance. Many times, it is necessary to prove that we really want what God has for us by tarrying for His answer. Tarry without discouragement, with faith. As soon as you see something that is right, go for it without delay and hold to it as the blind man clung to his testimony that Jesus had given him: “He answered and said, Whether he be a sinner or no, I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.”* (John 9:25) If you will do this, Jesus will find you and help you. “Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?”* (John 9:35)

Even then, how would one really know those truly in the Lord—do we apply our personal convictions as the measuring rod? Must people see things our way so that we can be in fellowship?

No, thank God! We do not have to apply our personal convictions as the measuring rod. People do not have to see things our way so that we can be in fellowship, but they do have to see things God’s way. Well, how is that different from my personal convictions? It all comes down to walking in the light and not looking to each other, but to God. Again, that critical and all-important question: what is right? To answer that question correctly is to find the mind of God. Well, what about the fellowship? Here it is in the Bible: “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another.”* (1 John 1:7) Not just any old light. The light as He is in the light. So, how does this work? Brother A and Brother B are quite different in their understanding. One would despair of them ever seeing eye to eye, naturally speaking. But Brother A humbles himself to God. He acknowledges his inability to find and walk in the light of God by himself. He cries to God to help him to get lined up with God. The question, “What is right?” becomes all important to him. He learns to wait on God for revelation—not to conclude things without it. Brother B comes to God the same way. They are in fellowship because they are walking in the light. What they differ in, they submit to God. They wait for Him to make the light of God plain to each of them. They bear and forbear with each other. It isn’t what either of them thinks that matters; it is what God thinks, and they are wholly devoted to getting His mind. They are not united by where they are in the process of getting God’s mind; they are united in the process itself.

“Not like waves upon the ocean,
Tossing wildly, rolling high;
Or the tempest’s great commotion,
As it sweeps across the sky;
But like twilight, gently stealing
O’er the verdant, shady lea,
So the holy saints in Zion
Rest—from all their sins set free.”*

The removal of the leaven (carnality) in the children of God makes it possible for them to dwell together with the eye single toward God, His ways, His thoughts, His standard, and be taught of Him. When one rises with leaven in his (her) heart and agitates in one direction or another, the unleavened saints continue to rest in God, trusting Him to help them to meekly hold the true position, standing firm. The sound of hammers is not heard (1 Kings 6:7), yet there is unity. This is only true of the house of God.

Who is responsible for spiritual health?

Is it the fault of the ministry that the congregation becomes spiritually dead or is it really the fault of the individual members of the congregation?

Reply:

It is individual decisions all around. The ministers may each be faithfully holding the truth and doing their best to stir each member of the congregation, but the attendants may not endure sound doctrine, and be editing and bending the teaching to what they want, as best they can. The congregation may want to walk in all the light, but the ministers may have each made the decision to follow some other way than walking in the light. So, when is a congregation dead? If we consider that the people (ministry and all others) are the body, then we realize that the presence of the Lord is the soul, and death occurs when the soul leaves the body. That is, when some other thing has supplanted the presence of the Lord in the congregation. At that point, the congregation is Ichabod (“The Glory Has Departed”), and it has a name that it liveth, but is dead. It is unworthy of the recognition of spiritual people as a pillar of the truth, and needs to be recognized for what it is. If the people continue down that course, Jesus will remove even their candlestick, and eventually they will lose consciousness of what salvation means. They may go on teaching and preaching more or less the same doctrine, but corruption will set in, and there will be little or no deliverance in that place.

What should be done when facing decay?

If a truly spiritual member of a congregation realizes that the congregation he attends is dead or is dying, please, kindly explain what the member should do. Some leave to sects, which proves that they did not have a vision of the church and that they had not been initially connected to the true Vine, unless they had been cut off.

Reply:

The first thing to do is to draw nigh to God. “The name of the Lord is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe.”* (Proverbs 18:10) It is so important here to be taught and guided by the Lord. The Bible teaches that a child of God should withdraw from anything that is not of God and come to what God has done, but this is much easier to say than to do. I am persuaded that only God knows all the steps that one of His children will have to take to (1) see what to do, (2) have the right attitude toward all, (3) obey the Word of God in leaving without taking some aspect of what is wrong with them (i.e., leaving Babylon, but remaining Babylonish), (4) discerning where to go, (5) being able to dwell among saints in Holy Spirit liberty and blessing.

While Satan has an advantage over any child of God who is not at home and conscious of the advantages of home, he seeks to implant problems and handicap that child of God, so that escape is either impossible or greatly hindered. Only God knows all the traps and snares that await a trusting little one who wants to live for God with all his heart. Only God can fully deliver. All about us are the wreckage of souls who have tried, tried so hard, to obey the Word of God and put in for more of God, but they missed the way somehow and made shipwreck. At some point, they did not get what God was trying to do. They ignored some critical instruction. When a child of God does successfully escape, the escape method that God uses proves to be a shaping, preparing thing in that person’s life. They come to Zion prepared of the Holy Ghost and ready and hungry for more of the same.

One brother that realized that things were wrong where he was, came to the point that he confessed he wasn’t right either. So far, so good. He complained of spiritual dryness, lack of blessing, etc. “If I were only over there with you,” he said. That wasn’t it. Whatever was hindering the blessing from God would be in him if he attended meeting here. He never did get past that point.

Another brother, who had successfully made the journey, told of an experience he and his wife had. They were traveling through the countryside pulling a trailer with their car. They stopped at a place to eat and were assailed with a horrible smell. “We can’t eat here,” they said, so they drove on. They stopped at another place, and had the same experience. Again they drove on. Finally they stopped a third time. Same smell. By this time, they were getting suspicious. When they looked at the back of the trailer, they found a little dead animal that had gotten cast up on the bumper. This was the source of the stench. They were carrying it around with them.

Many people do this in their lives. They go to different movements and different congregations and complain of things. Frequently the things that stink are in their own lives, and they are carrying them from place to place.

Now God will show you the truth about yourself. He will take you to the source of the trouble. Then He will tell you where to go, as well. You will fit with others for whom He has done the same.

How should an apostate minister be dealt with?

If a pastor of a congregation apostatizes, what should a spiritual congregation do? Would it be alright for them to ask him to leave if he cannot be recovered? Or should they pray him off? If the apostate minister is recovered, should he sit down in the congregation without preaching any more?

Reply:

“For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.”* (2 Corinthians 10:3-5)

When that first sickening certainty comes over the soul that so-in-so is not right, then it is critical to hide in God. “God is our refuge.”* (Psalm 46:1) “Be merciful unto me, O God, be merciful unto me: for my soul trusteth in thee: yea, in the shadow of thy wings will I make my refuge, until these calamities be overpast.”* (Psalm 57:1) This last text is the recorded reaction and prayer of David when he fled from Saul in the cave. It is crucial to hide from the sense of injustice, of unfairness, of outraged innocence. It is crucial to find the grace to consecrate to suffer as God sees fit. This stuff is dangerous. Consider what happened to the church at Ephesus. “I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name’s sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.”* (Revelation 2:2-4) Trying to love God and stay true to Him got these folks into a condition where they needed to repent from a fallen condition and to do again the first works.

Again I am reminded of the saying, “If you must step out of holiness to defend holiness, you have already lost it.” Now you can see, dear brother, that a people who will keep themselves in the love of God (Jude 1:21), and refuse to get outside of that love, will deal with a fallen brother as Jesus would have them to do so. “Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.”* (Galatians 6:1) Ah, just a little reshuffling, a little in the way of changes, and I could very well be in his position, and he in mine! Only the grace of God makes the difference. What am I without the Vine? And what is he without the Vine? Oh, this spirit of meekness! How vital it is!

The answer to the last question (“Should he sit among them?”) flows naturally from how he is dealt with. A congregation in which the truth prevails over all in this way will all sit in subjection to the standard of God, both in form and in spirit. Where else should the fallen brother go? What is left for the fallen brother that is of any avail but to sit and be subject to the standard that Jesus has raised before us? “Well,” you might say, “but will he not be remembered in his prior influence and unduly effect others in the congregation?” Not if it is done right. Not if the truth has really triumphed over all. But we do not need to hypothesize, for God has given us an example in the eighth chapter of Acts. Simon was baptized and sat down in the congregation, but at the point Peter and John arrived, he was not right, and God was faithful to him (and everybody else). The truth prevailed in that newly-formed congregation of saints, and as the truth moved forth, conquering and consolidating, the condition of Simon’s heart was exposed to him (and others, including us, even now), and he was urged to repent. He seemed to take this somewhat humbly at first (Acts 8:24), but history informs us that it did not take, and he went on in error and deception.

How should “surface” repentance be dealt with?

Many people want to debate in defense of themselves, claiming thattheir actions were not wrong when actually they were biblically wrong. When overcome in a discussion (argument? debate?) and their wrongs are exposed beyond doubt, they yield and ask for forgiveness. Many times, the “repentance” is only to win the favor of the congregation, and it is not genuine, as it comes out later.

What should a congregation or a minister do with such people who are habitually doing wrong and asking for forgiveness?—Pray them off? Ask them to leave? Does this have anything to do with what is written in Luke 17:3-4?—“Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.”

Reply:

The cycle of winning the favor of the congregation, rather than the favor of God, is part of what is wrong and should be dealt with accordingly. It is necessary to repent of the false repentance that happened before:

“Now, brother, we have been here before. On ——, you asked the congregation to forgive you and professed to ask the Lord to forgive you, too, but it is plain that you didn’t mean it from what has happened since. Do you want deliverance from this way of living, or are you going to go through this again? You don’t have to go through this again to prove your instability and degraded condition; we can just recognize the condition you are in right now. If you want to live better than this, we will call on God now to deliver you. Now you pray and confess this to God and ask Him to make a different person of you, and we will agree.”

It may be appropriate to ask the person to confess to the congregation and ask forgiveness for trifling with repentance toward them and not toward God, as was proved by what happened afterwards.

Connection through the Spirit.

“She asked how entire sanctification gave us a vision of the church.”2

Please, give a detailed answer to this question.

Reply:

“Are ye not carnal, and walk as men?”* (1 Corinthians 3:3) “Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.”* (2 Corinthians 5:16)

These scriptures do not make any sense to unsaved people at all, and they are blurred and vague to justified people who are not all the Lord’s. And this all has to do with the clearness of vision and singleness of eye that is the result of being wholly sanctified. “Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.”* (Mt. 5:8) The conventional wisdom is that this scripture refers to seeing God and being accepted of Him when He comes again. It certainly applies there, too, but it applies to seeing Him now in everything: “While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.”* (2 Corinthians 4:18) To see God at work is to see His church, and vice-versa. It is to make sense of things from the viewpoint of Him who sees all things, and one of the things which He imparts to His sanctified children is the ability to see everything working together for our good in all that happens to us, and this vision is not as men normally walk in their carnality. It is to “know… no man after the flesh,” that is, to size up and comprehend people from a non-fleshly viewpoint—the way that God sees things. The same thought is borne out in John 12:28-29. Some people just thought that God’s voice from heaven was thunder—a natural phenomena. They were in such a condition spiritually that that is all they were able to comprehend. Others were a little less fleshly in their thinking, and they realized that there was more to it than thunder. “An angel spake to him,”* (John 12:25) they said, but they still didn’t really hear (see) it.

The Bible is written to be fully comprehended by the wholly sanctified, and it is frequently misunderstood by others, who wrest its meanings and misunderstand its concepts.

Consider a moment how the gatherings of the people of God in the New Testament would appear to the fleshly mind. “So-and-so got up and talked a long time. Some people seemed to like what he/she said. There were people who talked about being different from how they used to be. It didn’t quite make sense to me. I guess they just wanted to change. They kept talking about seeing Jesus. He died and was buried, but they say He came to life; only He went up into the air, and they don’t see Him; only they say they do….”

Or to the heart that loves the Lord and has seen some of the unseen things—men as trees walking. “Brother So-and-so preached. He is very forceful and influential. He has a good vocabulary. Then another brother spoke. He doesn’t impress me as much. It is obvious that he hasn’t read very much, and his grammar isn’t very good either. Sister So-and-so testified. I like her. She is very sweet and kind.”

Then one of the eye-single, purified-in-heart. “God visited us in services today. He used several vessels. How wonderful to see the incomparable treasures of Jesus in vessels of clay! He is there in the midst of His children. ‘Where two or three are gathered together.’* (Matthew 18:20) ”

“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.”* (Matthew 5:8)

Now, in drawing these distinguishing characteristics, it is necessary to add that the capacity to see God does not mean that we notice everything that God is doing. We are still human, and He is up in heaven, while we are on earth (Ecclesiastes 5:2), and it is important not to get the “big head” and figure that we know more than He actually allows us to see. Still, I am convinced that God wants us to see more than most of us human beings do, and He knows how to enhance our spiritual eyesight and raise us above fleshly thinking until we can say with the apostle, “Henceforth know we no man after the flesh.”

Faith and experience.

“…when it would be healthier to have that faith well clad and the assumption translated to conviction.”3

Please, explain how the faith would be “clad,” and with what. Also explain about the “assumption being translated into conviction.” What makes the conviction necessary and what would be the result?

Reply:

There is such a thing as faith without sight, and there is such a thing as faith with sight. At one time, I believed in the unity of God’s people by the Holy Ghost, but I had not ever seen such a thing. It was “naked” faith, but it was definite faith—I believed with all my heart that it existed somewhere, somehow. Then the Lord moved me to where such a congregation was, and oh! how I rejoiced to see the reality of what I had believed in all along. My “naked” faith was clad with the testimony of what I had actually experienced. It did something to me and for me. It was as those who said, “The Messiah is coming. I know God is sending Him.” Then, “We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”* (John 1:45) We walk by faith, not sight, but how precious it is when our faith is turned to sight!

How can we identify and stand for truth?

“Yet she was confused by the ignore-the-traditions-be-filled-with-the-Spirit faction as compared with the hold-fast-to-the-traditions crowd.”4

Please, kindly explain the differences between the two groups. In most congregations, there is usually a battle between two (and sometimes more) factions. Many times it is not the good fight of faith, but over some other things. We need to know how to identify the spiritual and firmly stand for the truth at all costs.

Reply:

This sister had seen some who turned in disgust from a heavy emphasis on toeing the line in outward standards. These dear souls had been blessed by the Lord in reaching out to the unsaved without teaching the traditions of holy people. Yet she believed in the traditions that went with holy living. These traditions involved certain understandings of how to attire one’s self, etc. And so she was confused. Were the traditions necessary? Blessed? Should they be abandoned? She was trying to make sense out of it all. It did not help that different ones who fervently believed in the traditions were not as spiritual as they should have been, and the flavor of their teaching and loyalty did not harmonize with the Spirit of God in her heart.

The balance point of the whole thing is not in the keeping or not keeping itself, but in why we do what we do. In other words, there is little virtue in God’s eyes in doing right things for the wrong reasons. The motive matters more to Him than the thing itself.

To illustrate this, my wife and I use the example of my fondness for biscuits. I enjoy them for breakfast, and she knows this. But what I really enjoy is her delight in fixing them for me as a special treat. It is one of the ways in which she manifests her love for me. She prepares them perhaps about once a week. I could eat them more often, such is my fondness for them. But, if I required them of her, everything changes. The motive is different.

So it is between God and the soul. We dress plainly and without outward ornamentation because He delights in the absence of outer adornment and in the reality of inward adornment (1 Peter 3:3-4). We do this out of love for Him, just as my wife makes biscuits for me out of love for me. God loves our motive. If it becomes a duty only, then the love lessens.

In addition to this, since God does not delight in any motive but real love for Him in what we do, He does not inspire the toe-the-mark, don’t-let-brethren-down, don’t-break-the-ranks loyalty that has fastened hold on a significant part of the group of people where the sister worships. God didn’t teach them to preach it like that. They are not entirely wrong, but they are not entirely right either. They are ignoring a very important aspect of things because their hearts are not taught of God. Therefore they hold the truth in unrighteousness, and are a stumbling block to many of God’s little, sincere children. It will be better for them to have had a millstone hung about their necks and to have been cast into the depths of the sea.

Now I am sorry to say that the ignore-the-traditions-be-filled-with-the-Spirit group is in trouble, too. They are zealous to help others and fully appreciate the deadening effect caused by teaching standards without emphasizing motive. But they are not led by the Lord, either. They would throw away the ancient landmarks in their zeal. They would end up without a visible standard at all. They do not realize (being relatively young in the Lord) that pure motives result in the wisdom that cometh from above, and that this wisdom is manifest in visible and explainable standards that imbibe our love for God in a form that He accepts and finds delight in. We might say that external things mean little without the right inward motive, and inward motives are not convincing without concrete, external expression. “If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.”* (James 2:15-18)