Conversation 7
Mr. Truman—Good morning, Mr. Wright. I have brought my good friend Mr. Sumday over to get acquainted with you and you with him.
Mr. Wright—I am pleased to make your acquaintance, Mr. Sumday. I trust our acquaintance will mean truest and lasting friendship.
Mr. Sumday—I have been hearing considerable about you from my friend Mr. Truman, also from neighbors Works and Waters, who say that they have had some interesting talks with you. You have been reading the newspaper accounts of the great European War I suppose?
Mr. Wright—I have been reading some about it, enough to know that it is very cruel.
Mr. Sumday—Do you not think that it is a fulfillment of some of the Bible prophecies?
Mr. Wright—No doubt it is.
Mr. Sumday—Many a soul has gone into the world beyond from those dreadful battlefields.
Mr. Wright—Yes, and the saddest of all is that many were not saved.
Mr. Sumday—No doubt some will be forever lost, but many of them will be saved in eternity.
Mr. Wright—If they were not saved here, they will not be saved in eternity.
Mr. Sumday—Over there, my brother, over there on that other shore, the pearly gates will open to many a soul who has had his weaknesses, his “ups and downs,” who has made many crooked paths, and who has been often overcome by sin while here on this side of the dark chilly Jordan. Over there, he will find the gate ajar to the kingdom of God.
Mr. Wright—Where in the Bible do we read of the gates being ajar over there? I understand that there is no open door into heaven on the other side of the grave, that it is down here where the door is open. Christ brought the kingdom of heaven down to this world. He says, “I am the door: by me if any man enter in he shall be saved” (John 10:9); “Behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it.” (Revelation 3:8) The door into the kingdom of God is now open. It is before all men. “Whosoever will” may come and “take the water of life freely.” (Revelation 22:17) Those who fail to get in at the open door here in this life will fall to find any open door into heaven on the other side of death. The door is now open, my dear friend, and no man can shut it.
Mr. Sumday—But how can the door now be open, if as our preacher says, the kingdom will not be established until Christ comes?
Mr. Wright—Some will say, “There is no kingdom of God on earth; we cannot be saved in this life, etc.” That is an attempt to shut the door. But by Revelation 3:7, we learn that Christ has opened the door, and He alone can shut it. He is going to shut it someday. Someday He is coming back to earth for His bride—that fair and spotless bride, robed in fine linen clean and white—and then He is going to shut the door. “And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.” (Matthew 25:10) Alas! How foolish not to go in at the door while it is open! “Open unto us,” (Luke 13:25) will be the sad cry of those who hoped to find an open door beyond the grave and failed to enter here. Have you, Brother Sumday, entered the open door into the kingdom of God?
Mr. Sumday—I do not believe the theory that the kingdom of God is set up here on earth.
Mr. Wright—Why not believe it? How can you not believe it? Nothing is more plainly taught in God’s Book. Listen, Christ says, “Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.” (Revelation 3:20) In this world, the door into the kingdom of God stands open to all who will come, but the door to the heart is sometimes closed against Christ. In the world to come, it will be reversed. Jesus will have closed the door of salvation.
Mr. Sumday—If the door into the kingdom of God stood open all the time, as you say, I should think that the kingdom would soon get filled up with thieves, murderers, gamblers, adulterers, and all sorts of people.
Mr. Wright—It is not open in that sense. I might invite you to come to see me, saying, “My door is open unto you at any time.” But that would not mean that my door stands open all the time to all kinds of people that might come. I would expect you, and all others, to knock at the door. This is the day of salvation, and we could truthfully say this is the “knocking time.” Christ says to all, “Knock, and it shall be opened unto you.” (Matthew 7:7) What a blessed promise! If the sinner comes penitently knocking (calling on the name of the Lord), the door will be opened to him. But alas! When Christ comes and time shall be no more, then the door will be shut, and all knocking will be in vain. Also Christ now stands at the door of the sinner’s heart and knocks; but after this life is over, Christ will never knock at the door of the sinner’s heart. Christ will then say to him, “I never knew you: depart from me.” (Matthew 7:23) Oh, may God help poor souls to knock before it is too late!
Mr. Sumday—This idea that Christ will come into our hearts and we get into His kingdom, the idea of being so wondrously blessed and happy while here in the body, is all nonsense. One of your young sisters testified in our meeting the other evening that she was saved from all sin and was happy every moment of her life. I tell you, we never get such an experience until we get to heaven. We shall have our “ups and downs,” our dark days, our times of sorrow, our discouragements, our grief and despair, while in this life. Won’t we have cares while here in the flesh?
Mr. Wright—Yes, we shall have cares, but the Bible says, “Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.” (1 Peter 5:7)
Mr. Sumday—But we, like the good apostle Paul, will have our tribulations.
Mr. Wright—Yes, but we, like the good apostle Paul, can glory in them.
Mr. Sumday—The apostle said he had sorrow.
Mr. Wright—“Sorrowful,” he said, “yet alway rejoicing.” (2 Corinthians 6:10) The apostle James said, “Count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations.” (James 1:2)
Mr. Sumday—Paul said that he was troubled on every hand and perplexed.
Mr. Wright—Yet he said that he was not distressed nor in despair.
Mr. Sumday—Again he said that he was persecuted and cast down.
Mr. Wright—But he was not forsaken, nor destroyed.
Mr. Sumday—He said he was in famine, in nakedness, in hunger, in cold, in perils in the sea and among false brethren, etc., and we are likely to have such things in life as well as he.
Mr. Wright—We, by God’s grace, can also say as he said, that we are content in whatsoever state we are.
Mr. Sumday—One of the young sisters, in her testimony, said that God had saved her so thoroughly that temptations never come to her anymore. Now I know that temptations will come to us in this life.
Mr. Wright—Yes, they will. I do not know why the young sister should testify in that way. It might have been that she did not notice just exactly what she said.
Mr. Truman—Pardon me, Mr. Sumday, I think you misunderstood the young lady. I was at the meeting and listened carefully to every word. She said that God had so thoroughly saved her that she was enabled to overcome all temptations. We have to listen carefully or we shall not understand. You heard old Mr. Hopewell’s testimony, did you not?
Mr. Sumday—Yes, sir.
Mr. Truman—You remember what he said about belonging to the Christian Church?
Mr. Sumday—He did not say Christian Church. He said he belonged to the Campbellite Church for forty years, and if he had died within that time he would not have gone to heaven because he had not been saved from his sins. I thought at the time, “Foolish old man, we cannot be saved in this world.” I believe in a future salvation only.
Mr. Truman—Do you know what Mr. Newsome told a company of men that Brother Hopewell testified to?
Mr. Sumday—No, I do not.
Mr. Truman—He was sitting right by the side of me and should have heard as well as I. He told them that the old man said that there had not been a Campbellite gone to heaven in forty years. I am telling you this to show you how easily we can misunderstand.
Mr. Sumday—It may be that I misunderstood the young sister; I will not be contentious over the matter. I came over, Brother Wright, to talk to you on the subject of future salvation, but we have not stuck very close to the subject. I will come again because I have much to say on this subject. Goodbye.