Conversation 10

Mr. Wright—Wife, our good friend Mr. Truman has sent me word that he is going to bring his neighbor Mr. Cicure over this morning to have a talk with me on the subject, “Once in grace always in grace.” Now, I want you to pray. He has no Scriptural support for that belief, but nearly always those who have the least support for their belief are the most immovable in their belief; those with the least light are the blindest to light.

Mrs. Wright—Yes, Mrs. Truman told me that he is the most selfish man she ever knew. He has no friends, and he thinks all others are to blame.

Mr. Wright—Is that so? They are coming now. You pray earnestly that God give me words of wisdom.

Good morning, gentlemen. Come in.

(Enter Mr. Truman and Mr. Cicure.)

Mr. Truman—It is a fine morning, Mr. Wright. I have brought my neighbor Mr. Cicure over to have a talk with you. I take pleasure in introducing him to you.

Mr. Wright—I am pleased to make your acquaintance, Mr. Cicure, and give you a hearty welcome into my home. I hope our conversing together will establish a lifelong friendship.

Mr. Cicure—I hope so; however, I am slow and cautious in the choosing of friends, for I have been imposed upon many times.

Mr. Wright—In such a good community as this, we are quite safe in making friends with all.

Mr. Truman—Say, gentlemen, I found something here in a religious paper that I would like to read to you.

Mr. Wright—What can it be? Read it.

Mr. Truman—I will read only a few paragraphs:

It is the law of the universe to give in return for what is received. Nature, God, and society echo back to man what is received from man. The Husbandman gives the seed to the earth, and the earth gives back the golden harvest. The vine-dresser gives his care to the vines, and they give back the luscious fruitage. Give culture to the garden, and it will give back blooming flowers; give water to the desert, and it will return fields of grain. Give food to the birds when winter has locked up her stores, and they will give back their sweet spring songs.

Give God thyself, and thou shalt receive Himself. Give Him thy ways, and He will give thee His hand to lead thee in His ways. Give Him humble, loving submission, and He will give thee mercy like the wideness of the sea. Give the cup of water, in His name, to thy fellow man, the loaf to the hungry, and from the open windows of heaven, thou shalt receive thy reward.

As with nature and with God, so also is it with society. The world has nothing to give to those from whom it has received nothing, but she extends her hand to all who extend their hand to her. Share thy crust and thy cloak with thy fellow, and man will heap treasures into thy bosom. Show thyself friendly, and thou shalt have friends. Give thy service to man, and the world will rise up to call thee blessed.

A boy visiting in the mountains chanced one day to call aloud, whereupon he was mocked by a hidden stranger boy. The insult made him very angry, so he shouted back insult and epithets. These bad words returned from the mountainside. With bitter tears, the boy went to his mother, who sent him back to give the hidden stranger kind words and affectionate greetings. The stranger now echoed back the same kindness. Man receives what he gives, whether it be to nature, to God, or to society.

Mr. Cicure—I thank you. I am not so dull as to fail to understand its import. I know you meant it for me. But I know a thing or two, and one is to look out for myself. I am a man of business, and when I have a job on hand, I generally get at it.

I have come over to have a talk with you, Mr. Wright, on the subject of salvation. I have heard that you believe in the possibility of falling from grace, but I sincerely hope I have been misinformed, for I should regret that a man of your seeming intelligence would believe such an absurd thing.

Mr. Wright—You have been correctly informed. You believe in the impossibility of falling from grace?

Mr. Cicure—I certainly do, and am proud of my faith.

Mr. Wright—No doubt our research of the Scripture and reasonings together will reveal in which of these beliefs lies the greater absurdity.

Mr. Cicure—I want to ask you first, however, if the Gospel Trumpet is not your paper.

Mr. Wright—I read it. Have you been reading it?

Mr. Cicure—I read a copy occasionally, but why I ask you is I have a letter here from a friend of mine living in Georgia. He sent a copy of this letter, I think to the Gospel Trumpet Office for publication, but they refused to publish it. I should like to read you a portion of it. He says:

To the church of God which is at Anderson, Indiana, and to those throughout the whole world:

I now desire to show and set forth the true light pertaining to some of the mysteries of the gospel of God and our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, which the Holy Ghost hath made known unto me in these last days.

Now dear friends, there is a point which I desire to take up and to make plain to your minds, which is very puzzling and confusing to the human heart. It is this, that a person who has been born again can fall from grace. Now, I say before God the Father, and before our Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at His appearing, that this doctrine is not according to the Word of God, as I shall show.

Now, I earnestly contend, as the Holy Ghost has showed me, that a person that has been born again cannot fall from grace…. When a man gets to the place where he knows how to save himself and to save others and how to meet the devil on every point, he has then reached a state of development of maturity and has been born again, as is seen in Hebrews 5:14: “But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.” Now, it is this class that Paul speaks of in Hebrews 6:4-6 where he says, “It is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”

Mr. Wright—Why that text deals a deathblow to the man’s own doctrine. Paul says, “If they shall fall away,” which is a clear admission of the possibility of their falling away. But that man says it is impossible for such to fall away.

Mr. Cicure—It would be better that you wait until I am through reading, then you would know more what you are talking about.

Mr. Wright—I beg your pardon; I thought you were through reading.

Mr. Cicure—But I am not, if you please. He goes on to explain: “Now, Paul does not assert positively here, however, that this class of people cannot fall.”

Mr. Truman (aside to Mr. Wright): Indeed, he does not; but he does say it is possible for them to fall.

Mr. Cicure—“But he adds further that if they do fall, there is no chance of repentance for them, while we are told most positively again in the first chapter of Second Peter that this class of people cannot fall, so we see from the reading of these texts here that when a person has attained to this height, he never falls.”

Mr. Truman—Ha, ha, ha!

Mr. Cicure—What are you “ha-haing” about?

Mr. Truman—I just thought how we could get Paul and Peter into a “mix-up.”

Mr. Cicure—What do you mean?

Mr. Truman—Why don’t you see that this man has Paul teaching one thing and Peter the contrary?

Mr. Cicure—How do you make that out anyway?

Mr. Truman—Now, see here. Would Paul give such a warning if he did not well know there is a possibility of falling away? Surely not! Seems to me I can hear him saying, “I have not forgotten Demas, who forsook me, having loved this present world, nor have I forgotten those foolish Galatians who did run well, but were hindered and fell from grace because they turned back to the law; also I see the church at Laodicea are falling away, and God will soon spue them out of His mouth.”

And then Peter’s teaching: your article would have him say that it is impossible for those who have been born again to fall away from grace. But Peter nowhere says that. This man has misrepresented Peter.

Mr. Cicure—Do you know what you are talking about? You are making a strong statement about my friend.

Mr. Truman—Just let me finish my proof. I hope your friend has not misrepresented Peter willfully. In the first chapter of Second Peter are the most solemn warnings to those who had obtained like precious faith with him, lest they should become blind and forget that they were purged from their old sins. You see he gives a warning very similar to Paul’s.

Mr. Cicure—Well then, why does he say they can never fall?

Mr. Truman—Peter says that those who are diligent and keep the graces of the Spirit growing within them—they cannot fall while they are in that state of spiritual growth; but that is quite different from saying that those who have once entered grace can never backslide and fall.

Just a minute more for a simple illustration: A ball that is thrown upward can never come down as long as it is going up; but the moment it ceases to go up, it will start down and not cease until it strikes the earth with a thud. So long as a Christian is going forward, he cannot go backward, but when he ceases to go forward, he will go backward.

Mr. Cicure—I am sorry to be interrupted. There is more of this letter I wish to read. It goes on to say:

Now, to make it a little plainer, a thing that is born is of the same substance as its mother. We know that God is a Spirit and that every element of Him is pure and divine, hence before we can be born into His kingdom, we have to be pure even as He is pure. We can readily see that a person before he is born into the kingdom of God is perfect in knowledge and understanding, and when one has reached such a state, he cannot be reborn the second time. Nicodemus said to Jesus, “Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? Jesus answered…. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”* (John 3:4-6) It would not be common sense, nor would it be according to any of the laws of God, either natural or divine, to say that a thing that had once been born could be reborn a second time.

This is all I care to read. I heartily agree with what this writer has said. It is most reasonable. I am sorry some are so unreasonable. I’m going now.

Mr. Wright—You will come again, won’t you?

Mr. Cicure—I do not think I shall; it would be of no use.

Mr. Wright—I want you to come again. You know you said that they would not publish this manuscript at the Trumpet Office—and I am not surprised at that—but one of the brethren there wrote the man a good, kind, plain letter, which I hope has shown the man his error. Have you read it?

Mr. Cicure—No, I have not. I did not know that such a letter was written.

Mr. Wright—That’s the way it usually goes. Only one side of the story is told. You come over tomorrow, and I’ll have that letter here for you. It has some points that will make you think.

Mr. Cicure—Well, I should like to hear it, so I may come again.